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Sheriff gets OK to sell historic machine gun
The Bourbon County Sheriff's Office has something to sell that is causing some historians to shake their heads.
Sheriff Bill Martin told Bourbon County Commissioners Tuesday he would like to sell the M1921 Thompson machine gun that is owned by his office.
"It was the original submachine that was issued to the sheriff's department back in 1933 as part of the effort to fight moonshiners, gangsters and stuff that was passing through Bourbon County," Martin said. "It is not a weapon for today's law enforcement, by no means."
Martin said although the gun is a historical piece, there is no place it can be displayed. He has located a clearinghouse in New York that is willing to auction the gun.
"With the county being tight money-wise, the money we take for the weapon, we can use that for equipment," Martin said.
He said he is looking at using the proceeds from the sale of the gun to buy cages for patrol cars, which would separate those being arrested from the deputies. The cages cost between $1,000 and $1,200 each. He also would like to purchase digital hand-held cameras for crime scenes and field cameras, which could be set up in areas of suspected criminal activity.
"All of that costs money," Martin said. "By selling the weapon, that will offset some expense that the taxpayers won't have to pay."
He said the auction service has estimated the gun would sell for between $20,000 to $25,000, depending on whether the case is original.
"I don't know if it's the original case," Martin said.
"It's been there ever since I was there," Third District Commissioner and former sheriff Harold Coleman said. "We had another (ammunition) drum and it disappeared."
Martin said one drum is still with the gun.
Martin said he would like the gun go to someone who would display it with an explanation that it came from Bourbon County. He said possibly someone might read that and want to visit Bourbon County.
He said he would like to establish a separate fund for the money, similar to what is done with vehicle inspection fees, which are not tied to the sheriff's office budget, Martin said.
"I spend that money as I see fit," Martin said. "That's the same principal I want to use with the money I get from selling this weapon. I want to put it into a separate account so that if there's something that I need to get, I don't to come running up to you, saying 'This is something I need, I have this in my account,' so that I'm not actually nickel and diming the citizens with their taxes. Does that make sense?"
"It makes sense, but yet, it's all one big county," Commission Chair Barbara Albright said. "If it's a way of helping out, it might be a way of us having something to help out in another direction, too. I know you would like to have it designated."
First District Commissioner Lynne Oharah said it would be law enforcement property, but Albright argued it is county property.
"It helps us, if you get a little windfall, it helps us in other areas," Albright said.
"If he needs equipment, we're going to pay for it one way or another," Oharah said. "This would offset some of the cost of equipment he's upgrading his department."
Martin said the inspection fees stay with the sheriff's department because it is part of the department's duties.
"This is part of law enforcement," Martin said. "I feel (the money) needs to stay with law enforcement."
He said his office turned over money to the county at the end of the 2014 budget year.
"When we look at the budget, we need to look at the long term," Albright said. "I know what you're saying. I don't know that needs to be separate to use it. That's helpful, when we sell property or anything in the county, that's helpful."
Albright said the county will be looking at implementing security measures for the courthouse, which will be an expense.
Oharah said when public works equipment is sold, that money goes back to pay for replacement equipment.
"We could do the same thing with this, too," Oharah said.
Public works Director Jim Harris said the revenue from selling equipment goes back into the special equipment fund.
"So you have special accounts for that," Martin said. "That could be the same for the sheriff's office."
"However, he's separate in the budget," County Clerk Kendell Mason said. "You are part of the general fund."
"I'm saying when it comes to budget time, we look at every line item," Albright said.
"If it goes back to the department, let him do it," Coleman said.
Albright said they could not promise the revenue from the sale would not affect the sheriff's budget.
Martin asked if the commissioners would make a motion to allow him to sell the gun and to allow the revenue to go back to the sheriff's office. Albright said they did not need to make a motion.
History of the gun
Earlier during the discussion, Coleman did a little reminiscing about the gun.
"I know one thing," Coleman said. "The old timers, when I was sheriff, said 'don't ever get rid of it (the gun).' They said, 'If you do, we'll be mad at you forever.' But most of them have passed on."
Coleman also said it's too expensive to shoot the gun and "you can't please everyone."
"She's a shootin' piece of machinery, I'll tell you that," Coleman said.
"You shot it?" Oharah asked.
"You betcha," Coleman said. "I shot three or four boxes (of ammunition). And I'll tell you what. I'm not a very good shot, but I'll bet you I could take that 50-round drum and you pick out any of the dark blue counties on that map and I'll stand right here and put all 50 of 'em (bullets) in a circle like this."
He held his fingers in about an inch circle, indicating the shooting pattern.
On Thursday, Coleman told the Tribune, although some have shot the gun, he is not aware it was ever used in service.
He also said he is not sure what year the gun was issued to the department, but it was about the time the Fred Parker-Alvin Karpis gang robbed a bank in Fort Scott, which occurred June 17, 1932. He said the guns were issued to law enforcement because "back then, the gangsters all had automatic weapons, and I mean fully automatic weapons, which they still do."
Coleman said he is not aware the gun was ever fired in the line of duty.
"I can't tell you that, but I shot it," Coleman said. "It is a Chicago typewriter, I'll tell ya' that. They are a piece of work. When Thompson designed that, he designed a weapon."
He said the weapon is short range, but will put out "some fire power and put it out quick. But you can't afford to shoot it."
Coleman said a person could shoot $10 worth of ammunition in 10 seconds with the gun.
Coleman said the certificate showing Bourbon County is authorized to own the gun was located while he was sheriff.
Shane Walker, Bourbon County Historical Preservation Society member and Bourbon County director of information, said he was told any county that bordered a state where notorious gangsters were running, were issued a Thompson gun from the Kansas governor.
Walker said Coleman is the first sheriff he has seen with the gun. Walker said he and former sheriff Ron Gray had discussed taking the Thompson out and shooting it, but Walker never did.
"Something that old and valuable, I don't know what the serial number is on it, but I've seen them on-line go for $50,000 and $60,000 for originals," Walker said. "To me it's worth more as a history thing. It would be cool if we could build a display nobody could get into. But that's the history thing in me."
Local historian Arnold Schofield said Sheriff Ron Gray knew he was interested in guns and invited him to see the Thompson.
Schofield said the gun was used during World War II, although with ammunition clips instead of ammunition drums.
The Thompson machine gun (Tommy gun) was designed by Gen. John Taliaferro Thompson in 1919 after World War I.
Like Walker, Schofield would like to see the gun remain in Bourbon County. But as a practical matter, he said he also understands Martin's position.
"If we could find some other ways to come up with some extra money to get the guys what they need," Walker said. "That is the thing. It's Bourbon County. We don't have a lot of money and everybody's kind of run on a shoestring forever, especially the sheriff compared to the city and everybody else. So I understand Bill's need to get some stuff done, but if we could figure out a way to keep it, that'd be pretty cool."
Coleman said he knows some people won't be happy about the gun being sold.
"It's a real piece of work," Coleman said.
Walker said he doubts many counties kept the guns like Bourbon County has done.
"And that's always been passed down from sheriff to sheriff here," Walker said. "The sheriff was always told the sheriff from the other sheriff. It wasn't like even that many deputies ever saw it. It was kind of like Big Foot. Everybody heard about it but very few people ever saw one."
Harold Stewart was sheriff when Coleman began working for the sheriff's office in 1973.
"He loved (the gun)," Coleman said. "That was one of the first things he showed me. I don't know. He was a WWII vet in Italy. I don't know that they carried that gun in Italy, but they did in the Islands, but Harold was really proud of that gun. And so was I."