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(Michael Pommier/Tribune illustration)
Fort Scott Community College President Clayton Tatro and Fort Scott Police Chief Ron Puterbaugh each made their case in front of the commission Tuesday evening as to why they would be the best fit for the armory, which is now vacant and will be under the city's ownership by the end of the month.
Tatro said FSCC would like to use the building as the FSCC Occupational Center which would house the cosmetology, construction trades, and truck-driving programs. The additional building would also be used to create a student fitness and recreation center.
The armory in its current state is essentially move-in ready, according to Tatro. The only renovation that would need to take place would be in the cosmetology area. He added the cost of renovation would be about $40,000-50,000, which the college already has available.
"We have the monies available right now," Tatro said. "The building as it is designed fits our needs perfectly."
Tatro went on to explain the impact of having the programs in the county, saying that the programs would be able to accommodate 20 full-time students and 10 part-time students. In addition the move would allow FSCC to revitalize a masonry and restoration program which would accommodate another 20 full-time students.
The harsh reality was brought to the commission by Tatro that if the college was unsuccessful in it's attempt to move into the armory, the fate of the construction trades program, now in it's second year, would be very uncertain.
"Without the armory, we may not be able to keep a construction trades program in Bourbon County," Tatro said.
If the move was made a reality, according to Tatro, FSCC would see a domino effect in the operations of the college. He said the move would allow the college to move things around which would make other programs more efficient as also promote student activities on campus.
"Without the space, we're scrambling for space," Tatro said.
As far as a taxpayer impact, Tatro said that FSCC does not see a need to increase the mill levy in the immediate or foreseeable future.
Puterbaugh's presentation began with a virtual tour of the Hawkins Public Safety Facility to demonstrate how much of a space issue really does exist.
The FSPD's plan would renovate the unfinished area of the armory into offices, locker rooms, and interview rooms. It would allow the department to house all of it's evidence and records in one secure location as well as allow the department to store vehicles in a garage which would prolong the life of the vehicles and the equipment in them.
The cost of the renovation would not exceed $350,000, Puterbaugh said. It could be financed through temporary notes over over a 10-year period which would make the city's payment about $45,000 annually.
"It is the most economic solution to an already-identified problem," Puterbaugh said.
Puterbaugh also mentioned that the size of the building would allow the department to remain in that location for many years to come.
"Twenty-five or thirty years down the road, it will still meet our needs," he said.
Commissioner Sam Mason asked both Tatro and Puterbaugh to conduct a survey of the neighbors of the armory to see how they feel about the use of the building, such as any noise generate by police sirens or equipment from the trade programs. Both said they would be happy to get that information.
Mason also asked Puterbaugh if he had spoken to the Bourbon County Sheriff's Office to see if they would be interested in sharing the facility and allow both law enforcement agencies to operate out of the same location. Puterbaugh said that Sheriff Ron Gray did not express interest in the facility. Mason requested that Puterbaugh get the opinion of the Bourbon County Commission on the issue.
A representative from the Crawford County Health Department addressed the commission asking for assistance in the relocation of the Women, Infant, and Children Clinics which have been held inside the armory for more than 20 years.
In efforts to seek public opinion, Fort Scott City Manager Joe Turner has scheduled a work session for the commission to be held at 5 p.m. Feb. 23, in the Commissioner's Room at City Hall, 1 E. Third St. The purpose of the work session is to get the commissioners comments on the two proposals as well as explore other options. The public meeting which was scheduled to be held during the March 2 commission meeting has been rescheduled for March 9; the time has not been decided.
Comments
I thought that there was going to be public opinion about this issue last night. There was a good show of support as evidenced by the number of people who left after the presentations. I hope the Commissioners realized that there may have been some people who wanted to present their opinions, but were frustrated that they didn't.
Last nights meeting was a joke! No one got to voice their opinions on the issue at hand, and the commission was "unaware" that this issue would be so popular. I was under the impression that this was a public opinion meeting last night also. The commissioners had not even been in the armory to look and see how it could best be used! That is absolutly ridiculous! No one had any questions or opinions except Sam Mason, who just sounded like a grumpy old man. The commission should have had a special meeting night just for the armory and done their usual business on another night. Very unorganized and unprofessional in my opinion. You can really tell that the commission really cares about what the public thinks...ha ha ha!
I say draw straws......if neither the FSCC nor the FSPD have ample room for their needs, then why did the fspd not think about that when building the unit they now have? not enough funds? now the tax payer will "pay" for another building (bigger at the one they house now) to renovate...ask the neighbors? I am sure most of them are already 'use to' the sounds of sirens from the new hospital.The FSCC truck driving school? lol took the old Drive -In and Button's Salvage to house the tractor/trailers. Although i am all for progress, i have to ask this....what will become of the old/new fspd on south national? say they do get the armory... Burger King comes to mind. maybe another Liquor Store? Family Crisis building? Expand the fire department? no no already did that one, over on the east side of town.
I have an idea.....the building would be perfect for a Boys & Girls Club of America, dedicated to inspiring and enabling all young people to realize their full potential to be productive, responsible, and caring citizens.
Cyberchaos, the Hawkins building was not built for the police department. It was built solely as a fire station, and then they shoved the police department and the 911 station in there because they didn't have a place to put them. The building the police are in now will still be a fire station. It won't be a vacant building at all.
Ok people lets get real! A new police station thats great but come on did anyone look at the floor plans printed in an earlier paper?32 rooms and 1 closet this really needed? Heres what I think. Patrol shift room whats this for? Sergents and Lieutenants don't need offices thats 6 rooms uncalled for maybe some cubicles these could also double for the prisoner booking area since theres paperwork involved or extend the reception area for this. But prisoners arnt held here so why don't they just go straight to the jail to a holding cell insted of driving them all over town. Reception area of course. Cheifs office sure he's earned it. One room could be used as the conference room and classroom along with the audio visual equipment that will be used for learning purposes. There is no need for two interview rooms a dectives office and a public report room this could all be done in the same room. Special services? Isn't that what we pay our taxs for SRS to handle? Evidence, evidence storage and records could all be kept together thats two more down! What about city and county storage? Isnt there a place in the city hall or court house for this? If not add to the evidence storage room it stuff for storage right? Well there ya go. Kitchen, kitchen storage, dispatch breakroom and breakroom this could also be in one area. Have a kitchenette with one large break room for all employees. Why do they need different break rooms? Bathrooms for men and women of course. Locker rooms not a need just make one the the stalls in the batheroom a changeing area and if you want real lockers for personal storage during shift put some in the break room like most businesses. or maybe the changeing area and lockers could be part of the patrol shift room since I'm not sure what this is for sounds like a good use for that space. Secure vehicle parking? Can't they just park in the fenced in area? I'm sure they sell brooms and de-icer to everyone! Janitors closet sure and you could store you snow supplies to clean the cars in here as well. Last but not least the Highway Patrol...don't they have an office behind the typhoon bay? Whats wrong with them staying there and maybe coming over to the station when they need to. So as it turns out they could hugely cut the cost of renovation by having 1. Reception desk/prisoner booking 2.Cheifs office 3.Conference/classroom with audio visual equipment 4.Evidence, evidence storage, records, and city/county storage 5.Dective office/public report and interview room (or give the dective a cubical)6. cubical area for Lieutenants and Sergents also doubles as prisoner booking area 7. General break room with kitchen and cabinets and personal lockers for extra storage. 8.Mens restroom with changing room possibly lockers 9.Womens restroom with changing room possibly locker. 10. Janitors closet/storage 11. fenced in secure vehicle parking. So here you have it I have taken 32 rooms and 1 closet and turned it into 9 areas 1 closet and a secure outside parking area. After thinking about this don't you all think they could use their space and our tax money a little wiser and rethink the lay out plans to be more cost effective? Just my thought!
Back to the old Wal-mart building. What is being done with the 2/3rds that tractor supply is not using. That would be a great placed for FSCC to look at using or even buying. They could lease the 1/3 that tractor supply is using now to tractor supple and then use the other 2/3rds for the three outreach programs that they need room for. John Deere could use the bays and then old auto parts dept of the building and so could the harley davidson school. Just an ideal.
Neon, were you at the meeting last night? Obviously not, because the chief explained each room and why they were necessary. People who don't know anything about law enforcement don't have a clue about what is needed on a day to day basis to do the job properly. The Police Department isn't asking for anything extravagant. They are just asking for the space that they need to do the best job for the community that they can.
Don't you think that the police people that use the space everyday know what they need in a police station more than you do? Your suggestion puts them in the same situation they are in now, no room or space. If they are going to make the move, do it right the first time and avoid the situation again.I Just lost 3 1/2 minutes of my life reading that response. The Juco makes money, they can help themselves, the pd is not here to make money, they protect/help the people of Fort Scott.
HARSH REALITY? NO! CALL IT WHAT IT IS, A VEILED THREAT!!!
tribune article;
"The harsh reality was brought to the commission by Tatro that if the college was unsuccessful in it's attempt to move into the armory, the fate of the construction trades program, now in it's second year, would be very uncertain."
Normally, I'd say you can't blame the Tatro for trying, but considering his threats it appears
the college hierarchy is looking more and more like a greedy, land grabbing,egocentric corporation.
Regarding the veiled threat; That's simply unethical.
NOW THIS IS TRUTH AND COMMON SENSE;
"It is the most economic solution to an already-identified problem," Puterbaugh said.
Puterbaugh also mentioned that the size of the building would allow the department to remain in that location for many years to come.
"Twenty-five or thirty years down the road, it will still meet our needs," he said.
It's unrealistic that the city would seriously consider (for reasons other than to be polite), an alternative use for the old national guard armorey other than as a police department which is so long overdue, truly and realistically needed in this community.
This may be a case of something not translating well to the written page, but FSCC's comments do come across as having an "Or else..." vibe to them in this article.
Nick, I was at the meeting last night and I got the feeling that he was using "or else" tactics in his presentation. It was very unappealing to listen to after a while. He kept saying that he wasn't trying to be "melodramatic" but it definitely came across that way.
I have a question, and hopefully someone on here can give me an answer. Why does FSCC have the John Deere and Harley Davidson buildings in Crawford County? Why weren't they put in Bourbon County?
KCILS, you made a very good point about the old Wal Mart building. There's quite a bit of space there that FSCC could use for some of their vocational programs.
I did not take Dr. Tatro's comments as an "or else". He said he felt that certain programs may be effected without use of this space. As president of the College, he has a right, and a responsibility to be up-front with the Commission and "tell it like it is". If he sees some programs might be effected, then he has the right to say so.
Difficult decision. A lot going on with this subject. The Commissioners have their hands full.
Fort Scott Mom - I know in the case of Harley Davidson, they were not interested in using a two year school, so having the facility in Crawford County was part of the deal in FSCC aligning with them. I am not certain, but I believe John Deere was a similar issue. Basically, the Juco had a choice between not having the programs at all or having them based across the county line.
Hmmm lets see why doesnt the PD think about the walmart building insted if they are so worried about room then they can waste our hard earned tax dollars making 32 different rooms and then they could have a shop to work on their own cars and they would also be in a high traffic area insted of a surbuban area maybe this "idea" will suite you a little better so they can have all their precious space for non-sense crap they dont need!
If the way things in Fort Scott are going i.e no jobs, people leaving to find them ect. there wont be a town here in 25 or 30 years.
I think the economic development person needs to get busy , how many jobs has he brought to town since he's come here ?
As for the armory City hall and PD can fit in it .
or sell it and put it on the tax rolls
Neon, only if you had a clue as to what you are talking about then maybe some one would listen, but since you don't then no one cares what you have to say!!!!!
Some of you are taking this the wrong way. The college deserves the building just as much as the Police Department. But, the Police Department can only get a new building by tax payers, the college has several options that are always open to them(grants, private investors, etc.). The Police are like insurance, we don't want to pay the high price for it, but when we need it, we are glad that we had it.
>>>in the case of Harley Davidson............
Just what the world needs is more Chrome consultants and Doo-rag sales personal.
Not one of the so called tech's that has "graduated" from that joke of a place has ever landed a living wage job.
All they teach is how to strip drain plugs and spark plugs.
Lightning,
My son in law graduated from there and is now a manager of a Progressive Insurance repair facility in Kansas city!
He holds his Harley Davidson education in high regard, and apparently so did Progressive Insurance, so the "joke" is on YOU!
I didn't go to the meeting last night but in reading the comments made by Mr. Tatro, I get the feeling it was an "or else" threat to also put these programs elsewhere (Crawford County) or discontiue them all together. Reminds me of little kids playing...'if you don't let me do this, I'm going to take my toys and go home.' Like I said, I wasn't there but that's my take from the article in the paper.
I wonder if the PD has checked into the cost of building something to better fit their needs. $350,000 to renovate the armory bldg. is quite a bit (I'm thinking for that much money, you could build a NICE home...why not a new facility for PD). Even if they had to spend a little more, couldn't they build something smaller than the armory and still have adequate space to provide them with what they actually need? With all the offices they've included in their plans, it looks like it's an attempt to fill the existing space and not necessarily practical. If they went with new construction, they could choose a better location with easier access and would probably be more energy efficient. The armory building could then be used for city hall or SOLD to the college for a reasonable cost (which would provide additonal funds for the new PD). They seem to have the funds readily available.
>>>manager of Progressive repair facility.......
Well excuse me.
One has got a job as a crash consultant at the worst rated motorcycle insurance company in the country.
As someone currently living in the county where it is located, the Harley school is held in pretty high regard here. Lightning, when ranting, it is good to reserve your rants for things you actually have some knowledge of. Neon could use the same advice.
I don't think it would be possible to building a brand new Police Department for around $350,000. You are talking millions of dollars for a brand new police department. It's not the same as building a house. The addition for the Hawkins Center that they were looking at doing was going to be 2.2 million just for that. Imagine what a brand new facility would cost? That is why the armory is so perfect for a new Police Department. With a fraction of the money it would cost to build a new facility, they will have a building that's big enough, meets their needs now and well into the future, and a place that is secure for the 911 dispatch center in case of a natural disaster here.
>>>> have some knowledge of.
I have been involved and employed in the motorcycle industry going on forty years.
lightning,
Insults,sarcasm and slams may seem cool to you, but your personal agenda/axe to grind with the Harley School is so obvious that you have effectively caused any opinions you now give to be worthless by the readers on this site.
You've now lost any credibility you might have had.
Credibility? WHO are YOU to JUDGE.
This is a place for comments and opinions and if you don't care for mine don't respond.
Since it is a public forum, it is the reader who has the right to judge since it is for the readers that comments are posted. So that makes all readers judges. The more biased and vitrioled comments are, the less weight they carry.
In my opinion, I believe this is a simple issue...
Safety and Emergency Services are paramount. If moving the FSPD into the Armory will increase the efficiency and performance of both the Police AND Fire Departments, their needs should take precedence over the college. Period.
If the economy were booming in this area and the needs for those jobs' programs were in high demand, then I could see the college having more of a case for the Armory building. If those programs are indeed crucial to FSCC, then they should be able to pull the funding together to purchase a building like the old Family Physicians location for the Beautician Program or the former Wal-Mart location for the Construction Program, to name a couple.
Ultimately, the Armory now belongs to the Taxpayers of Fort Scott. Contact your City Commissioners and let them know how and why you think your resources are best utilized, so they can make the best informed decision possible.
Just an outsider's opinion looking in.
Thank you citizens of Fort Scott for the comments. We still have time to put together our thoughts and questions for the City commission. The public meeting which was scheduled to be held during the March 2 commission meeting has been rescheduled for March 9; the time has not been decided.
I'm not opposed to putting the PD in that building if it's the best option. I AM opposed to giving them the whole building when it could be combined with city hall to have one facility, and saving tax dollars. If they would use what space is reasonable, there'd be room for both to be housed there. I do agree that the PD should have input on what space they would like to have but I also think it's too easy to ask for more than you need when you're spending someone else's money. What they have proposed is excessive for a police force in a town the size of Fort Scott. Tax dollars should be used wisely to get the most benefit, in this case a solution for PD and city hall.
As far as access via 23rd Street, there should be few times that officers are leaving from their "offices." Their jobs are to be on patrol, not sitting inside the building. In order to make sure there's not problem getting through, the city commission could limit parking on 23rd Street to one side only. That would keep it open for traffic.
The Police Dept is NOT asking for an excessive amount of space. In order for them to do their job properly, they need this space. There is talk that at least one of the offices at City Hall could move over to the Hawkins Building.
Mr. Puterbaugh made it clear in his speech Tuesday. The first point: 2009 Comission made it known that the PD has problems with their current building.
Second: The dispatch center WILL NOT WITH STAND a hit from a tornado. Do we really think that the building would still be there considering it almost caved in during a snow storm in 2006?
Like it or not but emergency responders are one of the most important things a community can have. How is the PD going to send Officers/Firefighters/EMS to YOUR emergency when their building, dispatchers, and emergency equipment are gone with the wind?
I still think all the individual offices are excessive. Eliminate those to make room for City Hall and I'm all for it.
Fort Scott Resident,
The same problem of storage would still occur. It would have to be off site again. Also, how would you have an entrance for City Hall and the Police Department?
FtScottCitizen makes a great valid point. The College dosen't need another new building. lets see they have 2 buildings in pittsburg. they just got the new fine arts center. and The PD and Dispatch is in desperate need of a new home. So basically the question is would you rather have a safe dispatch and pd to come help you when you need or it or another college building that really dosen't help the community at all.
fort scott resident you are finally catching on to my "ideas" they dont need all those offices for officers or different spaces. at this point i would rather the children of this town get a good education then have the space squandered away with rooms they dont need. at least if the college got and and put more classes the students that live in dorms wouldnt have to go clear across town and would have more space then they do now.
Move City Hall to the Armory? I'll try to be realistic....Are you citizens willing to pay more for all that? More renovation cost inside the building, plus they will have to pave a decent sized parking area for the public (won't need that for PD). City Hall only NEEDS about 1/4 of the building space. IF it had to happen, maybe City Hall could take the Horton side and the PD could reconfigure the East or Huntington side? The whole issue is City Hall wants to be ADA accessible.
I forgot the second part of my comment....I think City Hall needs to stay downtown, not on the edge of town (does everybody want to go out to 23rd & Horton?), maybe they could get one of the empty buildings downtown (there's plenty of them-more everyday). I know my comments sound like I'm flip flopping, but just trying to throw out different ideas.
I wish I could have been at this meeting, it must have been a good show. The police need this building to do there jobs plain and simple, The college needs to look at other options businesses have closed here there are empty buildings. I will not comment on the rude cruel comments made on here about the Harley Davidson or John Deere Programs but I know many of the students who went there and they go on to Pitt State afterwards to get thier Bachelors degrees and many do. I know many students did nt like the commute but they made it. Harley Davidson students graduate and most go on to get good jobs at dealers all over the country and some even go overseas. So dont downgrade the students who go there lets see you do the job, most people who own new harleys are doctors lawyer ect so the job is secure who is gonna fix your hog hmm
But the police need this building so much more now.
Im sure the college will find what they need and the drama will pass, meanwhile life goes on
Let some other city like Pittsburg give the college a building. I mean, really, both my husband and myself have looked at the courses taught at the college and they have nothing, no short courses that could actually enhance or give someone the skills to get a job here and I thought that was their purpose. It is my understanding that most of the students are not even from Bourbon County and with the way things are set up, they pay the same tuition as someone in Bourbon County so, what do they really bring to the area anyway that would benefit the majority of the citizens? This building needs to go to the police station.(Period!)
Did anyone go to the meeting last night? Just curious about how it went and what was said.
FSCC dosen't deserve or Need This Building Plain and Simple and if They Some how get this..then There is something majorly wrong with this City.